Advice on softner model

[06190126]

Hi Guys
I have a mains fed system with a sealed heating system and a megaflow hot water storage cylinder.
Since the whole system is under pressure is it possible to attach a water softner unit and if so at what point would u reccommend.
Many thanks in advance for your advice
Pete

[MarkK]

Hi Pete,

I specialise in water treatment solutions for domestic & commercial applications which is one of the reasons I joined the forum, so I hope I can help you. I don’t know the depth of your knowledge, so I have tried to be as informative as I can without being condescending but there may be areas that you already have knowledge and you may have some additional questions.

Generally speaking the ideal place to connect a water softener is on the rising main before the supply tee's off to any appliances or taps.
The "Stop Cock" position, the way the pipe work runs & available space for the water softener will determine if this is possible, or if you can make it possible. You can install a softener anywhere, no matter how remote as long as you can get pipe work to & from the softener, as well as an overflow & waste connection & in most cases a 3 pin socket to run the time clock or electronic meter.
Some people choose to install a softener on the inlet to the megaflo unit, but by doing this you are limiting the benefits of soft water in the home & leaving the cold water system un-protected.

Bear in mind that you will need to be able to access the unit to top up the salt on a regular basis so building it into a fitted unit with limited access could become a pain. You will also need space to store the salt (25kg bags).
Ideally, there should be an unsoftened cold water tap in the kitchen, so you will need to decide if you wish to have a separate drinking water tap or leave the cold water tap in the kitchen as "UNSOFTENED". As this is a by-law, in your own home it's your choice & in some cases, all the water in the property is softened. This is a discussion in its own right.

Most decent water softener suppliers/manufacturers cater for this & supply a complete kit including drinking water filers & taps or alternative systems.
The next thing to consider is the amount of water that your system can demand. Conventional domestic water softeners have 1/2" connections & are therefore suitable for non-megaflo installations. If you want to match your megaflo to the correct softener, then you are looking to match either your 22mm or 28m cold supply. Some companies offer a megaflo fitting kit, but these are nothing more than larger inlet/outlet hoses & will do nothing to increase the flow rate through the softener. If a softener has a maximum flow rate of 38 litres per minute, then a larger inlet hose will not increase the flow, it just makes installation a bit easier by having larger bore connections. That's why I always recommend a true megaflo compatible softener where the flow rate is 85 litres per minute as opposed to conventional softeners that run at less than half of this. This is not to say that some conventional softeners won’t work, but their capacities could be stretched even at the low end of demand from a megaflo system.

Last thing is the cost.
Running costs per litre of soft water are very similar as it is a fixed chemical equation.
X number of kg’s of salt will be used in the production of X litres of soft water. This is down to the resin inside the unit & there are very few manufacturers of “Food Grade” resin worldwide. The management of the amount of water used during re-generation by an electronic metered water softener will be more efficient than that of a time clock model – But electronic models are more expensive.
A megaflo compatible unit will be completely automatic and only regenerate as it needs to. A manual non-electric softener will not suffice and there is no megaflo non-electronic unit available.
Block salt softeners are more expensive to run as the salt is more expensive per kg to buy. A tablet salt softener is generally between ½ to ¼ of the cost to run. Salt is more readily available from a number of local suppliers as well as a company that can deliver to your door nationally. Another point is that block salt softeners that only hold two x 4kg blocks at any one time – 1kg of salt will be used in the production of 1,000 litres of soft water. Therefore you will be adding salt every 12,000 litres of soft water used. The average family of 4 will use 25,000 litres per month so you are looking at refilling the unit every 2 weeks. The salt capacities of tablet salt units vary & some can hold 25 or 30kg’s at a time – So you fill it up once a month. If you have space you can also have a separate over-sized brine tank with increased capacity.

A megaflo compatible softener is more expensive than a conventional softener to buy due to the control valve & its automatic metering unit (£1,000 - £1,500). These are really small commercial units. It’s also common where installation space is not an issue, to custom build a megaflo compatible softener.

Regards
Mark

[06190126]

Hi Mark
Much obliged for your comprehensive reply. Due to space constraints and cost I will go ahead with the magnetic device and hopefully this will reduce the scale in the system.
Thanks again
Pete

[Andy Christensen, CWS]

Good luck with your magnet....

I have never had any luck with my customers who have used magnets. They do not softener the water and all the associated benefits that come with soft water.

There are small and very efficient water softeners available if size is a problem
http://www.kinetico.co.uk/residential.htm

Andy
_________________
Take of your water and your water will take care of you.

[Agile]

That posting was two years ago!

The launderette industry has generally had considerable success with permanent magnet water conditioners in the UK. We use one in our own launderettte. The directly heated gas water boiler has been in use

The only downside is that more soap is required ( that aids our soap sales! ) and there is lots of sludge precipitated in the drains.

Tony