Problems with flushing?

[Chris]

We all know that powerflushing with DS40 (say) can find leaks when powerflushing. What about (say) Sentinel X400 which is as I understand it a flocculating (dispersal/suspension) agent? Never had a problem but I haven't used it much. Anyone had it show a leak at say a boiler tapping?

I have a couple of customers whose systems are suffering a bit from poor circulation but don't want to do boiler changes until next year. Eg a few rads are slow to heat. I'd like to flush to improve things for the winter without too much risk. I have used plain water, on other sytems, with variable results.

Also - Scruff - you commented some weeks ago that using inhibitor (NB not a cleaner) on an old system was asking for trouble. Did you mean that or was it a typo?

[thescruff]

Yes Chris I did and welcome back, thought you may have stayed till we won the cup.

On any old system thats not been dosed or maintained, using chemicals will clean the inside and any weak spots will leak, same thing apply's to inhibitors, if its been done before ok if not keep a weak solution.

I would just powerflush with water and try it.

scruff

[Tony P]

Chris and Scruff,

Don't want to sound like a broken record here, but I'm sure you can do yourselves a favour by trying my suggestion and making an additional income. Also impress the client too.

If this is a hot water recirculating system and boiler as it appears to be, this works for us!

1) Install a good quality Physical water conditioner on the recirculating pipe. You will not experience the same leaking concerns as if you use acid based chemicals!

2) install an filter/strainer on the return to the boiler. This unit must be able to be isolated and be cleaned. When i say cleaned, I mean just emptied, rinsed and put back on line.

As long as there is flow existing on the system it will get descaled and remain clean. Just remember to check and clean the filter/strainer every month or so at the beginning!

Contact Bob Bagley at ukwt@hotmail.com He can assist you with any questions you may have. You can also contact me Tony Prior if you like at
l-tprior@rogers.com

Good luck and let me know how you make out.

regards,

Tony P

[thescruff]

Tony.

We have an annual turnover in excess of 3.5 million, if you have a product that is worth further investigation please send the information.

scruff

[AlanE]

http://www.ukwatertreatment.co.uk/??

Alan

[Tony P]

Scruff,

I would send info to you, but i'm not connected to the company so you will have to contact them directly.

I know them well and i know the systems capabilities. Unfortunately, I also won't be getting any sort of commission or jobs for passing on my knowledge to you guys.

All the best, and good luck.

Tony P.

[thescruff]

The product that tony mentioned would only work over a long period of time and not ever if no circulation was present.

It will not remove or prevent the build up of sludge, infact under certain conditions it will enhance the problem.

The point with any descale/cleaning on old pipes and systems, the removal of built up scale, corrosion etc will expose any weakness,

scruff

[Tony P]

Clarification!

1) If you have a closed loop heating system. A physical water conditioner as described will keep minerals in suspension and should not cause any significant setling of minerals to sludge!

2) same application! but there is a leak causing a continious feed of water and minerals. The conditioner will again keep the minerals in suspension, but increased mineral loading will cuase sludge to form. Very similar to a steam boiler. The remedy is to routinely remove the sludge by blow-down which is standard practice for a steam boiler. However, on a closed loop system, you should repair and leaks without delay.

3) In a Combi Boiler application, the minerals should be all carried away and discharged through the taps. The heating side is again as in #1 above.

Scruff, You are very correct about the need for a flow condition to exist for a physical conditioner to work and remove the existing scale. However, so does the same apply for chemicals. Simply put, if you have absolute pipe blockage even acids is not going to clean the plumbing! and pipe replacement is required!

To finish. The filter/strainer is for catching dislodged scale and sludge so that it does not plug the boiler. " The conditioner starts to remove existing scale once it is immediately on line and water if flowing by openning taps, pump flow or both " Depending on the extent of the scale problem, it may take a few weeks to a few months to clear all the scale. However, right from the start improvements of water flow increases will be noticed and continious!

No more mess or fuss with acids and no more damage claims to carpets and whatever else.

If anymore clarification is required, don't hesitate to ask!

Tony P.

[thescruff]

But you missed the point Tony.

I would not recommend removing anything from an old system, other than flushing with water.

In nine out of ten cases where old systems have been chemically cleaned, major leaks are reported, requiring new pipework and radiators.

We use and recommend the scalewatcher on new systems, which is very similar to ukwt device.

scruff

[Tony P]

Scruff,

Fair enough. Now I understand you fully and I totally agree with your comments!

If your happy with the Scalewatcher then carry on. In my opinion though, i think you will find the other system to be a tad better.

Cheers,

Tony P.